The End of American Power?

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Postby tim1990 » Wed 26. Nov 2008, 18:28

I know quite a lot about history but more wars and so on but I can not remember that Germany was so bad because of a financial crisis. In Germany there are good living conditions since forty years and the biggest problems came through useless and senseless wars and Russia has also recovered and there and and there were also rich cities. Russia also has a totally different system.
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Postby gtf_dean_fenech » Wed 26. Nov 2008, 18:35

Russia has also recovered and there and and there were also rich cities. Russia also has a totally different system.

geeze TOTALLY recovered|?!!!!!!!! I can't beleve you are saying this!!!! Lokk i'm not saying that today russia is what dark angel is!!! dude its just a tv series!!!! but it HAS NOT TOATALLY recovered. Of course there are rich people and there are cities, if not that would be stupid!!! every country has cities and rich people, but some have very little rich people comapred to the rest of society!!! The curropt system will not let russia continue to grow. According to a report by Russia's Ministry of Internal Affairs, the number one threat to Russia's economy is corruption within the government. This report placed the total for bribes and other illegal income received by government officials (hidden resources) at $100 billion in 1993 and 1994. Bribes were becoming nearly accepted within the governing system in Post-Pulse USA. People often learn and emulate the actions of those above them, and if corruption is seen happening at the highest in command then there is little to wonder why it exists in all sectors of the governmental structure. It is estimated that there are some 50,000 companies in Russia that are controlled by organized crime groups and that these groups control 40% of Russia's gross national product. While the media is the main control agent of "white collar" crimes (which this is even debatable during Dark Angel), the main control agent for organized crime groups is violence: enforcement of contracts, elimination of competition, and making examples of those who oppose their power all produce more violence. The corrupt system is creating more violence in an already more violent setting. So is the violence and corrupt system a consequence of the Pulse and America’s under developed economy or is it keeping it under developed?
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Postby tim1990 » Wed 26. Nov 2008, 19:26

I did not said totally i said also!!!!! recovered and you can not say that russia is underdeveloped like many other states, or?????? i also do not think that everyone in russia lifed with a high standard before they lost their great power. There were always many poor people under living standard.
and about your question: i think it is both, but i think that the potential for the violence had to be there before the pulse. and in the end you will see we can not change the ameriacan future not we two so we will see. let us talk about this in four years we will either laugh about it and be glad i was right. or we will have seen the usa going down and will remember a little bit sad and i will apologize for my opinion. but i think it is cool that we talked about it because i have not thaught of these problems and would not have done it without this article. :wink:
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Postby gtf_dean_fenech » Wed 26. Nov 2008, 19:29

recovered

no not recovered... recovering.
Look dude. My point is that it is a possibility not that it will happen. You probably aren't understanding me properly
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Postby tim1990 » Wed 26. Nov 2008, 19:33

yeah i thought you have the opinion that this will happen and there is no other way and i have to admit that it is possible and i think it mean you have to write has recovered but iam not sure and i don't want to fight with you about this :flag:
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Postby gtf_dean_fenech » Wed 26. Nov 2008, 19:35

look, at the end of my assignment i wrote about 500 words about possibloe recoveries. Read it dude. and this isn't fighting, this is discussing, it is a forum after all
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Postby tim1990 » Wed 26. Nov 2008, 19:36

yes but we do not have to discuss about grammar?
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Postby hedghehog » Sat 29. Nov 2008, 23:17

damn this got a lil serious.I want in :twisted: So much i wanna say but forgot since theres a lot of posts so ill have to start all over again.To make things short:I dont know who is right here (dean has more arguments) but yeah its kind of hard to believe that something that big and powerful(USA) can fall so fast.It would be hard to believe if it wasnt for good deans arguments.People screw things up and nothing man made is forever lasting not even modern technology can change that.Well hope i helped :sos:
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Postby gtf_dean_fenech » Sat 29. Nov 2008, 23:20

well you know what they say, the bigger they are, the harder the fall.... well large super powers have fell in the past, The roman empire, the egyptisn empire, nazi germany, Napolean's france, the soviet union... i can keep going on and on.
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Postby tim1990 » Sat 29. Nov 2008, 23:29

that is right. we will see how it is gonna be :wink:
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Postby Serenity » Sun 30. Nov 2008, 05:19

When it's all said and done, greed comes back to bite you, and the people you screwed over to get what you wanted. I don't know what's going to happen in my country but I do know things are gonna get a lot worse before they get better because people resist change, especially the people at the top of the food chain (so to speak) who don't wanna loose their position or power, and because rebuilding age old systems that had major flaws takes time and money.
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Postby rantanplan » Sun 30. Nov 2008, 17:09

yes, it sound a little like dark angel, exept that in the scenario, we could'nt buy gift for put under christmas tree, cause find eating will be already too difficult.
In dark angel, we see max and another people speaking about coffe or meat like if it's becomes very rarely, but she has always her moto, her bike, a lot of tool for her thief's life... . Without logan, always with high tech equipment, and in a luxuous loft... . (but of course, rich people have always existing, and they 'll exist for ever. :) ).

What i mean is just that if a situation like in DA come to us, it can only be worse than in DA, cause when you have no money, it's for each day and for everything, not like in the show :).

Now, i think all is possible, a recovery like a down... .
We are too young for have seen that, but remember that our grand parents have seen their countries change a lot in a short time, during the war.. . (i know, we are not in the 3st world war, it's just a example i give for show that everything can change fast... .).
For the crisis, i think we can recovery, but what happen after ? Things well come back again, with the "poor people always more poor, and rich always more rich" ? And how long it can run like this again? and what after? A big change in rules? some civils wars? A revolution? Wait'n see, like we tell, but i think all is possible... .
In USA, there was a big event, a litle time ago, everybody is ok for tell this elections are a big changement, and it's right, i find... . We had to see what sort of politic USA will pursuit, and what will the result.

I think the world is a perpetual come back : poor, something happen, grow up, develloped, something happen, down back, poor, ..... .
Since a lot of years, we heard about asia like some very poor countries... . Now, we learn different thing about china, for example (but a lot of things had to happen for this country). And maybe something will happen in thailand, too, in some years, cause people move more and more... .
Maybe a day we'll see all countries that we have always known as poor growed up, and so only we could know consequency for us... .

And in africa, if government come better, and people grow up, what about new energy, after the petrol ? I think to solar panel... . Africa could become a very good source of energy with that....

but i go a few away of the topic, now :). So,

bye! ;).
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Postby gtf_dean_fenech » Sun 30. Nov 2008, 23:53

but she has always her moto, her bike, a lot of tool for her thief's life...

remember sge steals... i think in one episode (the Dimond one) they said that the only way she could sustain the bike is by stealing, or something like that.

For the crisis, i think we can recovery, but what happen after ? Things well come back again, with the "poor people always more poor, and rich always more rich" ? And how long it can run like this again? and what after? A big change in rules? some civils wars? A revolution? Wait'n see, like we tell, but i think all is possible... .

yes i agree, all Grand civilisations have fell to give way to our civilisation, so just because we are living in it and have the advantage of technology, it doesn't exclude us from falling, in fact it increases the chance for an even more devestating downfall (see what EMP technology did in DA!)

I think the world is a perpetual come back : poor, something happen, grow up, develloped, something happen, down back, poor, ..... .
Since a lot of years, we heard about asia like some very poor countries... . Now, we learn different thing about china, for example (but a lot of things had to happen for this country). And maybe something will happen in thailand, too, in some years, cause people move more and more... .
Maybe a day we'll see all countries that we have always known as poor growed up, and so only we could know consequency for us... .

For sure, every ecomomist says that in about 20 or 30 years, china will be the world leader in econmay, will the usa economic crisi speed up this process?
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Postby hedghehog » Thu 4. Dec 2008, 14:38

oh serenity BTW congrats on a new president(if you voted for him that is)
And yeah it will be hard to change the "top of the food chain" one must really have huge balls
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Postby rantanplan » Sun 14. Dec 2008, 18:24

remember sge steals... i think in one episode (the Dimond one) they said that the only way she could sustain the bike is by stealing, or something like that.


i remember in one episod, she steals her bike, cause the police have catch that, for forced her to pay a lot... . But i don't remember she has steal her bike for have one. maybe i have forget some details... .
But the maintenance and the gas consommation is expensive, for a bike, no? the poverty seen in DA is not exactly real, i think... .

yes i agree, all Grand civilisations have fell to give way to our civilisation, so just because we are living in it and have the advantage of technology, it doesn't exclude us from falling, in fact it increases the chance for an even more devestating downfall (see what EMP technology did in DA!)


i'm ok with that. More, i can notice that each time our technology progress, there is often the other side of the coin... . Nuclear energy, for example, permit bombs and pollution too, for example.
the thing is, if we continue to innovate without thinking to consequency, the result can be a disaster, and if we decide to stop to innovate, we to dig our tomb... . We have to innovate with intelligence, and with the idea of the consequences, and dangers... .
I think scientists are already ok with that.... . The problem is the capitalist-egoist-political-system... . And I think it's not for tomorrow that this problem will be resolve... .
could it be a "natural cycle of the world"?

i don't know if the crisis speed up the process, cause the crisis is for all the world... . China is concerned too... .

bye!
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